GoodFellas
We help our listeners discover what it means to be a modern man. We focus on how to heal and grow past mental, physical, and emotional traumas. The goal at GoodFellas is to provide men with the tools for us to thrive, not just survive.
Episodes release weekly on Thursday at 2am PST/5 am EST.
Throughout the show we invite the audience to meet some interesting and impressive humans who have navigated some of the deepest valleys as they journey to some of the highest peaks. Join me, Hosea Chanchez, as we seek to discover the GOOD in humanity and uncover some of the secrets to living a purpose-filled life.
About the Host:
Hosea Chanchez is a prominent actor, producer, and director, from Montgomery, Alabama. Soon after graduating high school, he relocated to Los Angeles, California to pursue acting. He immediately began booking commercial roles which kickstarted his career, where he has found long-lasting success.
He has appeared on shows like Girlfriends, Black Lightning, and All American, but is best known for his starring role as the quarterback football player, Malik Wright, on the CW/BET sitcom, The Game, and its 2021 revival.
Hosea has built an impressive career over the years and a large fanbase as a result. He started his company, A Very Good Company, in 2022 to provide black men and women with luxury products, reliable services, and quality content.
GoodFellas
Ep 103: Game Guys - Life After the Game with Hosea Chanchez, Coby Bell, and Pooch Hall
Stepping into Hollywood with nothing but a dream and a suitcase, Hosea Chanchez, Coby Bell, and Pooch Hall share the rollercoaster journeys of their early acting careers. From Coby’s move to California to Pooch’s emotional near-miss with landing his role on The Game, this episode dives into the struggles they faced in their rise to success.
This episode explores how a single phone call can change the course of a career, with the actors recalling the thrill of receiving the call from Mara Brock Akil that catapulted them into the spotlight on The Game. The actors share insights on the supportive environment that made The Game a success and reflect on their transitions to new projects like Ray Donovan, revealing the emotional highs and lows of navigating Hollywood.
Balancing fame, family, and personal struggles is no easy feat, and our candid conversations explore the pressures of maintaining a career while dealing with personal demons like addiction and sobriety. This episode highlights the delicate balance between professional success and personal happiness, celebrating the resilience and growth that have shaped their journeys both on and off-screen.
To get into the drama class. I had like lied.
Speaker 2:I think we all lied about quite a few things. Something about something, yeah.
Speaker 3:I can ride a horse.
Speaker 2:Goodfellas is a simple mental space to heal and grow by a black man. For everyone who's listening, I'm Hosea Chanchez and this is Goodfellas. They need no introduction, but they are two beloved characters, two actors who have done work across multiple platforms and in our living rooms and our homes throughout our lives. So please do me a favor and welcome my dear friends kobe bell and poochall.
Speaker 3:hey, give yourselves a round of applause thank you, yes, yes, yes um, wow, thank you for having me, brother, of course, man this is dope.
Speaker 2:I'm very happy. Thank you, man. This is so special to me, this means so much to me. I love you guys and you guys know me in a way that most people don't, and it's interesting because we're going to get to know a lot more about each other, because it's been a really long time since we've done our thing together. But you know, I'm looking forward to sharing more and hearing more about your lives. You've lived a really interesting life, yeah, very, very colored life. Yeah, man, and you have always been one of my favorite human beings and I've always looked up to you.
Speaker 3:I've always admired you.
Speaker 2:You know that. We all know how special Pooch is right, yes, yeah so thank you for being here.
Speaker 3:No, I appreciate you man Like. I first met him in an audition commercial audition that's right on La Brea and 200 South La Brea.
Speaker 2:That's right too. South 200, South La Brea.
Speaker 3:That's right too. And you know, like when you first meet someone in the industry or you see them like oh yeah, I've seen them in a commercial, I've seen them on TV, and then you see them all the time and I saw you all the time after that. So it was crazy.
Speaker 2:It was me, you and a couple of other cats that we would always get the job class.
Speaker 3:it was gonna go to one of us like we would.
Speaker 2:Whatever the commercial was, it would happen. It would be one me, pooch, or it's like three other guys who worked a lot.
Speaker 1:They worked a lot too, so that might have been. So. Was that when you were a teenager, literally a teenager?
Speaker 2:yeah, oh, yeah, wow, yeah wow, yeah, I moved to California. I was driven out here when I was 17, going on 18.
Speaker 1:I think I got here when I was like 18 so I don't know if we ever really talked about that like you just came out of. Do you know anybody out here?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean well, I have an aunt that lives out here yeah, so that was with her at first. I did not stay with her. I was supposed to say were, and things kind of went wrong in Texas, from Alabama to Texas. Oh, I ended up saying what she did.
Speaker 1:Connect me with one of her, you know, I drove from Alabama to Texas, oh, I ended up staying with you, but she did connect me with one of her close friends who took me in, wow, and so you came out here to start auditioning. No dude, I think I'm going to go for it, man.
Speaker 2:when I came out here, I thought all I needed to do was move to California.
Speaker 3:And I was in Ontario. Yeah, see me I was in Riverside, Ontario.
Speaker 2:All the wrong places. That's where you work.
Speaker 3:Yes, when you first come out here to work from somewhere else and then you're like yeah, I'm in LA, they'll come visit you and they're like yo pooch, I'm here. Let's go grab some food or something. I'm like yo where you at. I'm in Anaheim. I was like that's not here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got about 100 more miles before you get here. I'm in the Bay, man Like they think, they think like Wait, can you, before we talk about that? Since we're talking about this, I want to talk about your start, all of our starts, Before you got the show. People may not really even know this, because we don't talk about this type of stuff much.
Speaker 2:But, Pooch, you were originally not in the pilot oh yeah, that was aldis hodge's role when we did the pilot, when we auditioned for the pilot, when we got those roles which my story is checkered and colored too, because I auditioned and tested for derwin twice- so how my story happened was like you know, we got this another football show and I was like okay, so I read it. No, but it was a hot one, though Everybody was talking about it.
Speaker 3:Not, really. Not to me bro, Not to me bro.
Speaker 2:There was a lot of buzz.
Speaker 3:There was other football stuff that I'd gone on, that I wanted.
Speaker 1:And then I liked If your whole gauge is just trying to be on a football show. Well, right, Well then, yeah, then this football show isn't as hot as that.
Speaker 3:No, but here's the thing when I saw it right and I read it and I was like what is this? And so, because I've been disappointed on the other football stuff, I was like what the fuck?
Speaker 1:You know, what.
Speaker 2:I'm saying I was like there's some more Hollywood cats going to tell people you ain't a real football player.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, right, so peep it. So I went in there, did my thing, and so first they had me read for Derwin and then they brought me back in for Malik.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay.
Speaker 3:And then they said they said read for Derwin. So and Eric Emery was my agent on it, and it didn't happen. So I was just like that's the bullshit. I was just like that's the bullshit. I was like, see, they don't know nothing about no football Then. So y'all shot the pilot. So like three weeks later I ran into him, ran into him at Paramount Because I was auditioning for something else and I saw him. He was sitting on a golf cart and I was going that's how you know. I'm like man, this lucky cat. I was like this lucky cat. So, man, this lucky cat, I was like this lucky cat, so I'm auditioning, he's already.
Speaker 3:He shot a pilot right, but you go, I don't know. Blah blah, blah, blah blah. I was like, all right, well, good luck, kept it moving.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because he was like congratulations yeah, congratulations yeah.
Speaker 3:And I kept it moving, but like I'm the type of cat who's really happy for a dude, but it doesn't mean I don't have that competitive edge to where damn. Maybe there was something I didn't do.
Speaker 2:You want to work, you want the job.
Speaker 3:Otherwise, don't go after it. Especially in that early phase of your career, you just want to try to grab everything. So I left, did my audition, da-da-da-da-da. And then one day I get this call from Eric, my agent. He says Pooch, hey, buddy. From Eric, my agent. He goes, he says Pooch, hey, buddy. Hey, do you remember that project called the Game? He's like the football show. I said yeah, and I was kind of like just saying yeah, like whatever, because I kind of put it behind me and it was during just what we used to have called pilot season.
Speaker 1:So you're just auditioning Crazy.
Speaker 3:And so I said, yeah, he goes, all right, well, you're going to get this. And I was just like that to me is like the kiss of death, oh really. So he goes. Suzanne wants to work with you. Anybody who says you're my guy, Suzanne was the best. Suzanne got a smile. I love her and he goes, but.
Speaker 3:Suzanne wants to work with you before you go in front of the audition, whatever. And I was like all right. And I was like damn. And then I'm saying to myself what did I do differently? And I remember what Hosea said. Hosea was like you got to play it real, like Selim wants real Da-da-da. And I'm like so for people out there auditioning, and when people think sitcom, they think sitcoms like set up, set up joke, like ba-doom-boom-tsh. The game was different. But I was auditioning thinking it was like a sitcom, because 30-minute show is usually sitcom. But then I remember I was listening to Jose and he was like but Salim and them wanted real, so I was like I wasn't sure.
Speaker 1:But you had to walk that line. Sorry to interrupt. You had to walk the line of like playing super real, but you also had to get the punch. Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:So when I went in, I went in with Suzanne and I no word of a lie I must have worked with Suzanne for like two hours and I remember leaving. This is on my mom and my dad. I had a headache, and so Eric was like hey, buddy how did it go? How'd you do? I was like I was cool and in my mind, in my mind, I was like bro, if I got this, I don't think I'd want it.
Speaker 2:I swear.
Speaker 1:I left with a headache.
Speaker 3:All over at CBS Radford, but low key. I don't know if I even really want this, because they don't really know real football players.
Speaker 2:This shit sucks. I was like this shit sucks, bro. You did have something to prove. You said it. So oh bro, but you were still. I'm glad you brought this up because you were still upset about the way the process went the first time when I talked to you. A little bit a little bit because.
Speaker 3:I'm like what? Because I seen all this as joint and I was like that's what y'all want and I was like, yeah, I don't know if this is for me. So I went in there and so Mara, so we do it. So Mara goes, like this, so we do the first take, and now, mind you, I was working with Suzanne for like two hours, right, and so now I'm coming in there off of that work session and then all of a sudden she says okay, so Mara's sitting there and she's got her legs and she's looking at me.
Speaker 2:And she said okay, relax.
Speaker 3:She says okay, she's like relax and I'm like all right. Yeah. She said okay, Mara goes like this, you played football, football, right, I go yeah. And so she said okay, just play it real, play it, play it like you. And I was like yeah, like you. She said, because last time you came in there you had this suit on and because I had a Steve Harvey suit on.
Speaker 2:I had a Steve.
Speaker 3:Harvey suit on the one of them. Real, they were long like the Matrix.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so she says this is Derwin. She goes like this to me she says this is Derwin. And when Mara gave me the note, literally it was like oh, like the clouds parted and it was like action. She's like that's it, that's it, that's it. I was like oh, okay, and she's like all right, let's, let's. She's like to the next scene and she's like, yeah, like, keep that below, we're gonna, we're gonna bring you in front of the uh, in front of the network. I was like okay, I felt good, I felt that in your stomach, like yes you have the showrunner saying yes that was your part, though, from the very beginning.
Speaker 2:We could see when you got the role, because we were there before you. We could see that you got the role because we were there before you. We could see that you were it. It was almost like she wrote that part for you. You were so perfect as Derwin. You had no choice. Anybody said that you weren't. They're hating. You know what I'm saying Because it was so good, you were so good. When we were watching you, we knew that it was meant for you brother.
Speaker 3:Thank you, fam, and that was the setup, but it gets better. I'm literally pulling up to 24, off in as the hoop, and then my phone rings with this three one oh number. I'm like who's this? And she's like Pooch Mar had this real soft voice, pooch. I go, yeah, she goes, mara. I go, oh, hey, mara. Wow, she called you herself. Yeah, she called me herself, right, and I had just pulled into a parking space and I thought I was going to be like I just wanted to call you to say thanks. This is what I thought. Say thanks, but we're going to go in the other direction.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so I was just like she's like, I just want to say you got it was this a FaceTime call?
Speaker 2:Did she do the same? The mannerisms and everything.
Speaker 3:And, bro, I was like I kind of like teared up, like because I worked for that, yeah, but I still really didn't know what it was. And then we got in there, bro.
Speaker 2:Magic Off. It was made for you brother. Kobe, let's roll into when you first got the job. What do you remember from that time, Like how was that experience for you? I auditioned booked it. You're hilarious. First of all, you didn't even think you were going to get that job, dude, because I remember.
Speaker 1:I remember you didn't think you were going to get that job.
Speaker 2:I was remember.
Speaker 1:I remember you didn't think you were gonna get that job, stark contrast to what pooch did yeah, no, so I, I, so I am coming off of I had just done, um, all I had done. Third watch yeah, all I'd done before. That was drama. I you know I did one year on a on a drama.
Speaker 1:And then I did six years on Third Watch, which was drama that was kind of like me starting out in my 20s, all through my 20s, mm-hmm, um. And then after Third Watch ended, I really wanted to do comedy because I'm like it's like it's just in me, and in between takes and third watch all I'm doing is fucking around and then action, and all I wanted to do was comedy. And my wife was really into girlfriends and then I got wind that the same people that do girlfriends were doing a show. So I was like, okay, okay, okay, I want to get on that, I want to get on that. So I went in and did it. And I went in knowing like all right, this is either going to work or it's not. And I did it and they were laughing and then I was like, okay, good, I'm done, I'm done. Okay, you know you're an auditioner. You're like, okay, come outside. And Suzanne followed me and gave me a hug and I was like this is good.
Speaker 2:I mean right.
Speaker 1:And then I got word that I was going to test and I remember the first stage of testing, like you, were there.
Speaker 2:Yep, that's when we first met, when.
Speaker 3:Wendy was there, I remember.
Speaker 1:Wendy and some other people were there Right, and I remember going into that and thinking, okay, it worked the first time, let me see if it works. It was the first time and see if it works for the whatever.
Speaker 1:The first stage of testing whatever that was, and they were digging it, and then the final stages of the test, which, whatever the network or the studio, whichever one, is second. This is another location. I just the only thing I really remember is celine pulling me aside right before. Okay, except, do what the fuck you've been doing.
Speaker 2:I think he gave all. Don't you change anything?
Speaker 1:don't try to like razzle dazzle hike your shit up just for this moment. Do the shit you've been doing and you will have this job and if you don't know, Sleet.
Speaker 3:He kind of can come off scary bro.
Speaker 2:I appreciate it, oh my god so yeah so then we it.
Speaker 1:And then, man, I, I love every fucking minute of that, of that yeah, job man, and I can't believe that we got to do it for as long as we did.
Speaker 2:I know how'd you start acting like where did? Because your dad was a musician, yeah, which you've talked about in the past, but not really thoroughly so I did like so when I was a little kid.
Speaker 1:I would like the school plays and stuff. I always kind of it was. It came easy to me, um, but I never, you know, I was more into like basketball and stuff. And then when I got into college I was gonna do more like behind the scenes stuff as my major. But they were kind of very quickly like no, no, you need to be out here, you know, because you're so goofy and whatever. Ah, yeah, and then some of the theater people were coming over like during some of the classes I was in, if I was doing a scene like, some of the other professors would come and watch. And then one professor in particular, amy Glazer, who is still like my mentor. She was like you need to do this, this is like you need to do this, this is what you need to be doing. Come audition for this play and I had to get into the drama class. I had like lied.
Speaker 2:I think we all lied about quite a few things we'll talk about that too.
Speaker 1:I can ride a horse they were like yeah, in order to be in this advanced drama class, you need to have done this, this, this, this. I was like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I did that and then. So then I started doing the plays at school. That led to Buddy Butler, rest in peace. He said hey, he was one of the theater arts people there. He was directing a play with the the louisiana sorry, with the st louis uh black repertory company. He said I want you to come do this play during your winter break. Wow, and it'll be like a class and you'll miss some school. But you know, so it was kind of like my first professional gig. They put me up in a hard apartment.
Speaker 1:I was like wow, yeah, it's dope I remember at that at the airport I was talking to somebody in line to get on the plane and they're like what do you do? I was like I'm an actor. That was like the first time.
Speaker 2:I said it yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then it was like no turning back from there. And then right after that I hooked up with the manager and I started kind of, I started booking guest spots right away. I graduated in June and I booked an ER oh, I've seen that, yeah you know what the fuck I was doing?
Speaker 3:yeah, you were. You were a dad or a patient, or I was a.
Speaker 1:I was a college track runner yeah, some kind yeah yeah, maria bello comes and does the exam and I get you had hair too, it's a boner?
Speaker 3:yeah, he did have hair, yeah story, and so I was like whoa, I'm I'm and I was playing basketball at lunch with george clooney and stuff.
Speaker 1:I was like wow, dude and while we were playing basketball, I didn't know what the fuck was going on. While we're playing basketball, the the three women from friends walked by.
Speaker 2:Hey, george, I was like I'm in this, is it man?
Speaker 1:and I didn't know that the same production company from ER had kept me in mind all the way to Third Watch whoa dude so after ER I did a bunch of guest spots and then I booked a series regular gig. And then that next pilot season that thing ended only in a season, la Doctors only in a season. And then I booked a series regular gig. And then that next pilot season, that thing ended only one season. La Doctors only won a season. And then I hopped on Third Watch and then the rest is history.
Speaker 2:Wow, this is crazy, bro. That is incredible. I mean, you guys have both had such amazing careers, which I'm so proud of you guys, even after the game, but do you guys feel like the game was the best job you ever got? Or oh, bro, or no?
Speaker 1:as far as for me, as far as having fun like it never felt like homework for me never.
Speaker 2:Those are the writers, god, those writers man yeah, man, those the jokes we were so fortunate jokes yeah dude and so preparing.
Speaker 1:There's times where you get your if you're doing some medical thing or some legal thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, jargon, you have to yeah.
Speaker 1:Exposition jargon. And okay, here's your scene for you know, for Tuesday.
Speaker 2:And you're like fuck yeah, bro, I got to go look up words.
Speaker 1:Like on Walker, the show that I was just on, I was the king of. I was the captain, so I was the king of. I was the captain, so I was the king of. Just like dropping those Got to where I would have to make up songs in my head.
Speaker 2:I'd turn it into a song. Oh nice, that works. Sing song, that works. And then you just say the song.
Speaker 3:For real, that's basically it, but the game never felt that way.
Speaker 1:The game was just like it was like got it.
Speaker 3:And then just, you know, with us yeah, the team that we all were. Trust me, we've all been on projects where you feel like the lone wolf or you don't really feel included, but on us we were we. We were a team for real.
Speaker 2:Yeah and I don't think anybody could have cast the chemistry, because we could have been great actors but not liked each other. Right, we could have been great actors but not hung out after we spent hours at the fucking lot with each other after everybody else is gone.
Speaker 3:It was that fun.
Speaker 2:We all felt safe, it was safe.
Speaker 3:It felt safe, absolutely, we were making each other better.
Speaker 2:And we liked each other. Yeah, we liked and then we loved each other. Fast track, you know what was cool too.
Speaker 3:We liked and then we loved each other Fast track, you know, pretty soon in there. You know what was cool too. We were on, we were a part of this becoming that, everything that was like, and I think it was a new transition into the industry, wise in a sense, where we were that show that people like, hey, have you all saw the game? I think it was. We were that show for the people who were looking for something different, and I think that's what we were and we were part of everything that was different and changing.
Speaker 2:When the show went on without you guys. You know, as most people know, the show ended up taking another direction In the last iteration on Paramount Plus and the only two original cast members that were regulars on that show was myself and Wendy and Kobe you came and you were guests. And Pooch you guys came and you were guests. And what I really wanted- to know from you guys was what.
Speaker 2:I know what our experience was and I don't really think you guys understand or even know what it was like for Wendy and myself, but I know what our experience was, which I will share with you. But I really want to know how you guys felt when the show went on without you and Pooch. Actually, I'd like to start with you because I want to talk about our BET years when you left the show originally, which was a small fracturing point for you and I at one point in time. Yeah, can you talk a little bit specifically about you know why you left the show on BET, when we were like the highest rated show on television.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can absolutely talk about it and thank you, thank you for that segue into it.
Speaker 3:Well, what happened was when the show first got canceled and brought back, I was on Accidentally, on Purpose which is on, I believe, CBS with Jenna Elfman, and you know, you and I used to work at a 24-hour fitness in Hollywood and I remember, you know, the rumors starting of like the game was coming back. The game was coming back and so I remember telling my agent Marnie, I said, yeah, I got some friends who I play basketball with, who are on focus groups, and then I ran Hosea. They said the game's coming back and she was like no, no, no. She was like that show's done.
Speaker 2:And this is after we had been canceled on the. Cw, the CW after we were successful. Then they canceled us and then there were two years or a few years in between, two or a few years in between. I think it was two. It was two, two, no.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Close to it was. We got canceled and then I was on Accidental Unpurposed for a whole season.
Speaker 2:Right, and then it came shortly after that.
Speaker 1:Through BET. Yeah, okay, so so I I think maybe like a year and some change.
Speaker 3:Maybe a year and some change Not quite.
Speaker 2:12, 24 months, a full cycle.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but a friend of mine had said hey, pooch, they're bringing your show back. And I go. What show he's like the game, I go, really. I go, nah, I don't know. And then he goes, yeah, I'm on a focus group it was my man, lay and he goes. Where are these focus groups? And I said, well, where he goes, either BET or TNT. And I go, okay, he goes. Yeah, so he goes, we'll watch the show and then we'll grade it, because they're looking to see where it's going to go. He goes, I hope it's on BET. And I was like, oh, I don't know, man. And so I told my agent this.
Speaker 3:And then I ran into you and you said, you know they're bringing the show back. And I go, yeah, I keep hearing that, but keep hearing that. But I go, I'm on a show already, so you go. You said, and the so it made the announcement that BET was bringing the show back. And you were like, yeah, but they can't bring it back unless you're involved. And I said, well, damn, I was like I'd love to be involved, but I have, I'm on another show.
Speaker 3:And what people don't understand, and even even early in the Wichita call, because when you even told me I was excited, but I was also like I do want to do bigger and better things. And so at the time people were like, well, if you get stuck over BET, you're going to be in trouble and you can't get out of that. And so I was a little nervous about that and I wasn't sure exactly what that meant. I'm like people are really watching BET and I was't sure exactly what that meant. I'm like people are really watching BET and I was like I'm on CBS right now.
Speaker 3:And so, with that being said, I wanted to rock out with y'all because I just love the concept of football and we had so much fun. But when you're an actor and you get a job, it's not like you go fill an application and like, hey, kobe, we want you to work over here at McDonald's and like, okay, so I'm gonna work. Like Monday, friday, saturday and Sunday, and you have weekends off or holidays off. You have to fill out contracts. So in a way, these studios somewhat, they're Buying your you and your time like you. Oh, that's right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, they, they own you.
Speaker 3:And so I was kind of like, well, I don't know. And so I was on Accidentally on Purpose. Now, being on Accidentally on Purpose, I was looking forward to the crossover appeal because now, like on the game, I didn't get to go to the People's Choice Awards. Now I'm like where Hugh Jackman was, like you know, he was Wolverine and he was like the guest honor and I'm sitting here with all these people but being in this world, I'm hearing how much game love from people in the audience. Where Claudia Ludlow, michael Rappaport's sister, was the showrunner, she's like, oh my God, you're really popular. And she's like I heard about the game, I never watched it. And she's just like maybe I got to watch the game because all these people were recognizing me and Jenna Elfman from accidentally on purpose.
Speaker 2:Right, I wanted to bring us to the point where you and I had our little disagreement online about you leaving the show after you bashed the show.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I bashed the show because they. But no, it was right.
Speaker 2:No, no, you were right, but first of all, but you were right, and that's exactly why I want us to talk about it, because I want to tell you you were right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but how?
Speaker 1:did that all go down Like, yeah, when you and Tia left from the BET years, tia didn't leave. Well, how did that work?
Speaker 2:No, Tia did leave?
Speaker 3:No, she didn't, so here's the deal.
Speaker 2:No, she didn't leave. Sorry, she didn't technically leave herself.
Speaker 3:I signed on to BET because I mean, and here's the thing, guys, it's not like me and you are negotiating our own deals. There's a reason why we have managers and agents. So my team, because they didn't want me to get trapped over there they said we're going to make this deal and they're in second position and they want you so bad that we're going to do one year guaranteed the next year network option. Now, from what I understand, you guys did two guaranteed one year network option and I was the only one that had two years. So she said Marnie goes, when we negotiate for the third year, we're going to Well, you had two years, but the rest of us had three.
Speaker 3:But you had two years.
Speaker 2:But the problem came in was because we were told it was favored nations Right. That's where the issue came in, because we didn't know was favored nations Right.
Speaker 1:That's where the issue came in because we didn't know.
Speaker 2:We were lied to Because we were told by all of our reps those of us that knew it was favored nations and that was the agreement we all thought we were signing. And then we find out favored nations is same money, same years. You can't have favored nations if it's not the same.
Speaker 3:I thought it was money, but mine was one year. No, but your money was still different. No, no, here's the thing. Here's the thing one year guaranteed. And then I had the network option. I wanted to come back for our third year because we were negotiating and because my contract was done, finito. And they look, we got to get pooch. We got to get pooch, and so Marnie told me what she had told them. She says here's the deal, guys. She said since we can't, we don't have a deal, she says we're going to send pooch out and this is what's going to happen he's going to book a movie or a TV show and you're going to lose him. And they were saying, well, this is all we can do. And Marnie said, okay, and literally it happened. I booked Ray Donovan out the gate.
Speaker 3:Then we went back to BET and said, okay, we'll take the deal, but we'll take it in second position, right, and we've been negotiating all the way up until this point. And then it got announced in deadline. That says you know, pooch hangs up his football cleats for Boxer Gloves and he joins the cast of Ray Donovan Showtime. Blah, blah, blah. Which is a great headline by the way, it was a great headline. Thank you.
Speaker 2:It's very poetic Bro.
Speaker 3:Bro, and you guys know me, I always wanted to be out there on some of the.
Speaker 3:Will Smith, like Marvel, like all types of wild stuff, like I grew up doing that stuff. Um, when that got announced, then I get a call from Tia. She says, hey, pooch, um, uh, how you doing? I was like, good, now, mind you, t and I worked together but we ain't hang out. And then I saw like Tia was like cause she had just had a Cree and I was like you know, is everything cool. And so she's like, yeah, like just curious, did you get your pickup letter? I go, no, she's like okay, well, I didn't get my pickup letter, but Wendy and Hosea did. And then I go, okay, like yeah, I go, you should be fine, t. I go there's no reason why they would not send. She goes, I'm thinking I didn't get one because you're on, you just came out, you're coming out on Radon. And I go, yeah, but you and I have done tons of stuff where we're not in scenes together.
Speaker 2:I go, you done tons. You got guys that have broken up the story yeah, I go.
Speaker 3:I said I go losing their lead girl. I would say just sit tight.
Speaker 1:I didn't see it either.
Speaker 3:She was like I just think it's kind of weird. I was like, yeah, you're fine. I just think it's a glitch in the matrix. Sure enough they didn't pick up Tia's option. Tia puts out on Twitter. I'll never forget this. I was in Canada. She was like like all of a sudden and it was in Rome, phones were all like it wasn't working. Right out there in Canada and Tia goes well, guys, I just want to let you know it's been a fun ride. I'm no longer going to be on the game. Blah, blah, blah and black Twitter went crazy Right. Then I got a call Pooch, can you put the fire out and say whoop-de-woo?
Speaker 2:And then I was like say what? What do you mean? Put the fire out.
Speaker 3:I swear on my mom. They said can you put out like a rebuttal tweet to Tia's thing, because Black Chitlin went crazy? And then I hit my agent because I didn't know what to do and she said no, if you're going to do it, you and Tia go on like you know E or whatever, and really set the record straight and do it the right way.
Speaker 2:I didn't, but wait, were you not coming back to the show at that time?
Speaker 1:Because why would y'all go?
Speaker 2:together if you're waiting on your pickup letter and she already got it, Whoa whoa.
Speaker 3:She didn't know that my contract was done, so I said I don't see why they wouldn't hook you up At the time.
Speaker 2:Just because I'm not there don't mean you won't be Right.
Speaker 3:So I'm telling Mara every step of what's going on with Ray. We're going to be doing this time. We're going to be doing this time, let me do this time, so I'll be available cuz. So time when we made my deal, said I still can do the game, and I swear Mara, guess what? We're gonna be shooting this. We just finished and so like that it out, she's okay, we'll see what happens. Foods, and Mara said if everyone involved, one wanted to work out it will. And I was like please, cuz I love, I love being over there and, like you know, yes, ray was cool, but then I was thinking about the cross promotion, all this, that and third, and then when they like.
Speaker 3:Drop studios, networks and showrunners are thinking about that well, I don't, we don't know, right, we don't know, you know which is going to bring me to now.
Speaker 2:In hindsight, knowing the things that we do and now that we're older, I'm not shocked that the things happen the way that they did. Now that we know how business runs in a different way, you realize, oh OK, it wasn't out of left field that Tia wouldn't be brought back. It wasn't out of left field that a show would move on if other people are playing ball in a different way, my show is my priority. That person showed. So now that we're older, you can see things. When it comes to business and a, you know, millions of dollars for a show, I think you can see how things turned out. In some way is the way that they did well, right, yo absolutely.
Speaker 3:But you know, in, in, in t is defense, mine and yours, because I felt like we bought into the whole family aspect Right In that look out for each other and like we love you and this, that and the third Right. And I did everything by the book and none of us were issues on set for the most part, like I know, we were all good right but you know it's not always the case in certain situations, but I just didn't see them not having like T was like Melanie Barnett.
Speaker 3:Like you know, we were pillars in our in the black community and even as we crossed over. So when that didn't happen and they put that tweet out BET did, and then they didn't bring us back, I was like, but Mara said, and then she says and Mara called me and she says we're going to go in a different direction. And I was like, oh okay, but I can tell you right now, even when I called Mara to tell her that I got Ray Donovan, I can tell she was hurt. You know it wasn't, you know, personal per se, it was like business. But I should have hey, mara, I'm going in for Ray Donovan, I'm doing what my agents are saying as a person in the business, like this is what you're supposed to do and you know, as opposed to hey, mara, I'm going to be going for the show.
Speaker 3:Like I want to let you know, because I do remember when I did jump in the broom, I was talking with Salim and Mara. Prior to and even when we were negotiating, salim had called me, said call, like talk to your people. This time my people were handling it and I was like it's gonna work out and I'm trusting my agent. She's like it's gonna work itself out. They're not gonna cut their nose off to spite their face, like this is how this stuff works. And she said you being on another show only helps them, especially if they're allowing you to be on another show. She says this happens all the time and I was like, okay, but not over here.
Speaker 2:Well, it also doesn't happen all the time. For black people it happens a lot, I mean really for any black person in the industry. Now it's more common because everything is so short-term and turnarounds right, but that stuff doesn't really happen, for us Especially at that time.
Speaker 1:It's what was happening with me, but it was happening in reverse. You know, the original game, the first three seasons on CW got canceled and then I went out and luckily I booked a burn notice and then I was like two episodes into filming that when I got word that the game was coming back on BET and I was like shit, shit, I'm on. You know I'm on this now like officially the game was done, it wasn't a thing anymore. Now I'm on burn notice. And then then I got word that USA will let you do it if you had X amount of episodes.
Speaker 1:BET will take you. If BET, usa will let you do it. If you had X amount of episodes or something right, bet will take you. If BET, yeah, if BET's cool with you being on this, they'll let you do it. I was like what, what, what, what? And then they just said, yeah, we'll just We'll hold off the game production until it's towards the end of burn notice. And that's what started those four years of me just doing both those shows, flying like crazy, because I was still flying home all the time.
Speaker 3:That was on the BET side when we came back right.
Speaker 2:Yes, that was on BET. Yeah, when we came back he was on Burn Notice.
Speaker 3:Because I mentioned that to Mara. I mentioned that to Mara and she says, well, kobe's situation is different, pooch, and I was like, yeah, because it was in reverse, right, right. And I said and I was like trying to understand it because I wanted to see it from her perspective too where, like I said, people who don't even know what advice to give you or even what you're feeling and what you're going through, like when I felt because you've got to keep in mind, when Mara called me to say you got it and we had this moment, and when I told her I got Ray Donovan, there was a shift. But I understand because it's almost like a breakup, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because she's feeling like look, we have this show, you're on the show, the show is just for her perspective, right? She's like we're going to go and do another season what you booked, ray Donovan.
Speaker 3:But we were negotiating, my contract had ended, so it was almost like I get that.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean, but was it the way that ball was played too? One thing I learned, like early, like maybe four or five years ago I haven't people speak for you was how people yes, facts.
Speaker 2:How our teams represent us yes, it's how people speak, how I would speak yes, bro, I yes exactly, oh my good because let's keep it 1000% real the power dynamics in the industry, especially when you are a white agent or white manager and you are talking to people who have made it, people of color who have survived and thrived in the producing executive yeah, some land you can't approach them in a certain way.
Speaker 1:That's a good point because a lot of representatives they don't understand the impact that the game had on the African.
Speaker 2:American audience.
Speaker 1:And they don't understand. I could be speaking to some representatives like I don't understand, like some, I could be speaking to some representative that's like I don't really, because we're not an industry show. I don't really know your work, yeah industry and it's like okay, that's funny because to the black audience it was for a generation it was their shit. Yeah, in a beautiful, beautiful, real way. You know what I mean. But they don't get that.
Speaker 3:But then they always act like I'm for your people, I'm for the cause and this, that and the third. And then I'm like, well, I really need you to understand the impact that we had to where, if you're trying to put something together in a sense of like well, we got to have some kind of strategy or use something to where we can get these producers, I'm like, well, you may be looking for like yeah, cool on Ray Dunham, but I go, if you want, like the fan craze, like how your son or daughter loves Justin Bieber or Kendrick Lamar or Drake or something. We were that without songs and I go now you bring that to the forefront. And then you, you know, because it's all marketing, it's like, well, you know, does he or she have an audience or followers?
Speaker 1:we were that before a lot of other shows were yeah, do you guys remember after when they started doing the reruns and and just doing the marathons? So yeah marathon, marathon. And people's living rooms, people's living rooms, yeah, the different, the shift, and when I remember it was the three of us we were walking in atlanta somewhere, oh, and a car drove by and just drove by fast, just from like the shape of our heads or whatever, and they honked and screamed and stuff and the three of us were like what? The fuck just happened.
Speaker 2:What was that? We found our people.
Speaker 3:So we were the equivalent to friends, but almost like the Black version of friends.
Speaker 1:It sounds weird to say that, but it's the truth. It's really the truth. It's the truth.
Speaker 2:In the most humble way. It was pandemon and and yeah, it really it was pandemonium, dude, even when we would say that they would be like oh okay, take it easy.
Speaker 3:You guys are my friends, I'm like no, no, we were. Like in our so Chad cool, it's the fourth lady whatever the fuck.
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. On a, you know on a white show, yeah, and we would be shooting somewhere in miami where there'd be some folks yeah jason pitts.
Speaker 2:The whole night I'm talking about there was.
Speaker 1:There was a couple times when, right in front of the main dude who was like what the fuck is going on here? Yeah, like I actually remember these stories screaming and running.
Speaker 3:I'd never experienced it to. To me I was like what the fuck?
Speaker 1:Screaming and running up and hugging and you know what I mean, like all that shit.
Speaker 2:Like pop stars. We were like pop stars, but by then Pooch and I were knee deep in celebrity.
Speaker 1:Making a hundred grand Popping up places and stuff, cash, private jets.
Speaker 2:We lived that. I mean you really did it.
Speaker 3:There wasn't a check that pooch didn't take. It was like being human cocaine. It's just like people were like I need to hit a pooch, I need to hit a pooch and now it's so different because of social media and they have so much access to celebrities.
Speaker 2:I also, before we wrap this up, I really wanted to speak to you guys about like for me. My perspective at that time was like you said. You know we were family and everything, so I had taken it and I think I can somewhat speak for Wendy and I don't really want to, but, um, you know we felt a lot of guilt oh, we felt a lot of guilt moving on without you guys
Speaker 1:with the newest version, all versions, but for sure we mean all versions, no the the newest version, the the newest, the newest one, all versions though going back to bet when you were on another show oh and you gotta remember kelly done this before.
Speaker 2:Brit wasn't there, right, oh?
Speaker 3:that was weird I didn't like that at all, bro.
Speaker 1:Let me just say I didn't like any like I. I you know listen this. But all the different people that came into the show, they, that was weird. I didn't like that at all, bro, let me just say I didn't like any like I. You know listen all the different people that came into the show. They were great and I love them. But you know, love Jay, love Lauren. Oh yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, right, brandy, but the original connection that we had the main ingredient.
Speaker 2:I told you it was so beautiful, but the beautiful thing is they even have said they've all said that you know they, as artists and actors, they've all said the same thing, like Brandy bigs us up like the original six. Even when we brought the show back, I remember Brandy had a call and you know she was rooting for all of us, like the original six, because she just made. She maintains that we created this world and that we deserve to benefit from it, which I respect her so much for that, and she's been consistent about saying that to whoever she speaks to about this show.
Speaker 1:So to your question about how I felt about that, that most recent reboot, yeah, I mean I was on another show so I couldn't have done it, but I, and as happy as I was for you and Wendy, you, said that.
Speaker 2:You made that very clear. I was like get yours, get yours.
Speaker 1:But from a creative standpoint, I was like why are they doing it this way? This is not. This isn't what this is a see this isn't what our fans want to see. And it was a great show. It was good you got. They did a great job of what they did, right. But I'm like, if you want to read, bring this thing back. In my opinion it was like bring back the OG's.
Speaker 2:Doesn't matter how old, there's so much crusty under the bridge with all of us if we're being really honest and authentic. And we know that, because the last time we tried to reboot the show which is the hour that we were saying would have been really bomb- but I'm just saying like no, that it's such a difficult thing when people get older and move on with their lives and they have bills and they have so it's not that simple.
Speaker 1:Real fans of the game are like I. Can't wait to see a show about Jace's daughter. No offense.
Speaker 3:It's just the truth, right, right, not if you don't build it up, not if you don't build it up.
Speaker 2:Well, what he's saying is even if you build it up, they're always going to because it's source material. It's material that has existed and people love it. Off of that, they're always going to compare it to that.
Speaker 1:I think we talked about this. I kind of saw what it was and what was going on. I was like, look, I'm just going to go in.
Speaker 2:But I even told both of you guys I'm like this is not the same show, right right right. This is not our shit anymore. I gave you heads up before this is not our shit anymore.
Speaker 1:They should have called it something else or something. You know what I mean. Yeah, so when I showed up, I to how for Wendy and I Well for myself, I'll say it was not as easy to do the job as you guys thought or probably thought. I know, I didn't know, I did not think that, oh OK, well, you knew no bro.
Speaker 2:You and I had, you know, a conversation. And you and I had a conversation. Our conversation was more based off of your experience not my experience but to be in the scenario and for us to have built what we built together and for me and Wendy to go on, we know it's a huge blessing. It's something that you, you know you cannot be mad at it, but I would be lying if I said we mourned you guys.
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah bro, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it was to the point where, now that the show is over, I actually can breathe. Nobody would probably ever believe this, but it's such a weight off of my shoulder Right Although I love the show. It's a huge blessing and I would do it again in a minute with you guys and a huge chunk of your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and a huge 20 years of my life, but I still mourned all of you guys, and that was another thing that really, one day, Tia and I will have to probably have a powwow. Maybe we will, maybe we won't, but she has some things that she has to deal with. Whatever her issue is Right, right and come. She has some things that she has to like, she has to deal with. Whatever her issue is Right, Right, you know, and come to me. But also I also know that it's business because I know specifically. I'll say what I spoke to Tia about. She didn't have some answers for some things. So, specifically, did this encourage what you've gone through in your life, you know, with the trouble and stuff that you had gotten in in the past? You know, wait. So what's your DUI?
Speaker 1:Oh, just the whole, the whole game rollercoaster. Yeah, oh, bro.
Speaker 3:Yeah, bro. Well, you know, no, bro. I mean I, I I'm a a proud, you know, recovering alcoholic. I do not, I'm not proud, recovering alcoholic. I'm not afraid to mention my sobriety, because it happened, man, it happened and this is one of the things. There's a whole bunch of things that I learned since being sober was number one. I'm never, ever going to allow anyone to make me feel guilty about my success or my poochisms or what makes me weird or quirky. You know, even as we joke, you know if we're chilling in our dressing rooms and there's White Snake playing and T is like oh pooch, you're white, you're listening to white's Whitesnake playing. And Tia's like oh Pooch, you're white, you're listening to white music, and then Kobe's like that's a great song, like what are you?
Speaker 1:talking about.
Speaker 3:Like whatever as an artist because like I don't think I ever said Whitesnake had a great song- no, it was, but I know it was done to fucking right, yeah.
Speaker 3:So you know, as a football player and as a boxer, we listen to all types of different things. What moves us in the moment? I just had all these compilations of songs. The point I'm trying to make is, when you come into this business and you find some success because what a lot of people don't understand as actors I'm going out to LA, I'm going to go blow, I'm going to be in a movie, I'm going to be doing this. You don't choose. If you become famous or whatever it just happens, you can come out to say I'm gonna come out to la or go to new york and work right, and even work. It'd be like your pizza delivery guy one over here, and then maybe you're gigging, still whatever. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:But when you go from being on, a hit show, because I also remember you weren't even a drinker.
Speaker 3:No, when we would go to the CW parties.
Speaker 2:And so when we first started, he would have a shot and he would have to have water.
Speaker 3:Because two shots or something You'd be like I'm watching you pooch.
Speaker 2:You better take that shot with us?
Speaker 3:Yeah, because you would always be like and throw it behind his head, or I would just take a sip and put it down.
Speaker 2:But that's what I really want to have a conversation with you about, because after what happened to you brother, I thought back in my mind, as we often do. I was like what situations did I possibly put him in?
Speaker 3:Who you? Yeah, absolutely no, no, no.
Speaker 2:But I'm just saying you think about, were there signs in the past? You know what I'm saying. But my point is it brought me back to the CW party that I'm mentioning to you guys, where you pretended that you were taking the shot and you often did that and you didn't. And I thought I said, well, I wonder. Years later, after it happened I said you know, I wonder if you were struggling with something then, and then we just didn't know.
Speaker 3:No, so you know, my mom was an alcoholic and my dad wasn't, and I just wasn't a drinker. I mean, I was a boxer and I played football and I was this health gym guy and I can honestly say, like being here with you and I mentioned this to you before like and shout out to all the other actors and entertainers struggling with addiction or some type of pain or darkness that they're going through.
Speaker 3:Because what a lot of people don't understand is, even in this industry, it's a drug going through. Because what a lot of people don't understand is even in this industry it's a drug. And and I remember I think back to you and I when we used to talk and all the different things we wanted to do and like I can't believe we're here and you make it, and then you're like holy crap, it's actually happening. Yeah, and what a lot of people don't understand is when you're on, like where we were, we didn't have to pay for, we were getting for free right, like if you were a drinker, like you could have the top shelf of whatever alcohol you wanted, we, we would gifted alcohol. Now, that's as far as I took it, and I really believed in being from the northeast, from from the east coast. We believed in hard work and I worked hard. You know, even even you guys would seem like oh cuz, kobe would always make a joke. Let me guess where you're going.
Speaker 3:Pooch the gym yeah so I would be in the gym in between shots and I really, I really wanted, I wanted it because I always, like I grew up, you know, playing cops and robbers or being you know, role-playing and all that crap, and I wanted to be a Jedi Knight or a GI Joe guy or some kind of covert ops dude or a lawyer or something, so like being in the entertainment industry. It afforded us that. So when you make it and then everyone's like rooting for you, and then you're like, ok, I'm doing everything right. And then you finally come to a place where it's like, okay, we got to, we got to kind of make some tough choices. I'm like, well, how tough could it be? Like I got the role. You know, I was the guy for the role that lets us work it out. They go, well, there's some. There's some like stipulations and some like obstacles, and I'm like, well, what? And when, all of a sudden, you're being told like, hey, congratulations, you got this. But over here is going to be upset. But I'm like, well, they just said we can do this.
Speaker 3:And then the people who actually, in a way, gave you this opportunity, like, we drafted you. That's how I looked at it, mara drafted me and then we had all the success. And then all of a sudden you go over here where your reps and everyone's like we want you over here. But my heart was over here. And then when I'm like, okay, I know what's happening, because when we would know when mara would get pissed, like people understand that mars like smiles and like super creative and talented, but if you, you, you don't, if you don't come correct, you're going to see that boss lady, I'm not playing with you, I think with Mara. I never experienced that other than Mara being hurt. But then I felt, when I wasn't able to be on the game after the things that I was told, I was like, okay, I'm going to go over to Ray Donovan and I'm going to like set it off. But then when you go over there, and then it's almost like all right, pooch, just get in there and get rebounds. Meanwhile you go over.
Speaker 2:I was on the game putting up numbers. You was a star on the game.
Speaker 3:And then you go over there.
Speaker 2:Go over there, but I didn't have the transition.
Speaker 3:I didn't know the transition of okay, so this is how it's going to go, and then people telling you how to feel, where I was, like I'm not really happy. What are you? What's wrong? Are you crazy?
Speaker 1:Like you're on.
Speaker 3:You're working with Oscar winner and you're like what Are you joking? I'm having lunch over there with my guys, who aren't superstars. Right where I grew up playing football, we're playing football in the Falcons or stadium, like that was it for me. So I'm over there. Yes, I'm happy that eventually I'm gonna maybe get over here and work with the Russo brothers, which I did. But you know, working on the game was like you didn't, it wasn't work and all of a sudden I missed you guys. And then, when I wasn't able to work over there and I was over at Ray and what people don't understand, right for me, we work pretty much almost every day when we were on the game, right, okay, we were on set and even weren't working, we were still on set, clowning, whatever. Right, I'd work on Ray, be it a scene or two scenes or maybe not in the episode. And it was two weeks to shoot an episode, bro, there was times I was off for a month. But because you have a contract, oh wow. And if stuff didn't line up, did?
Speaker 2:you feel like you made the wrong decision at some point in time.
Speaker 3:At the time I was fighting that, saying this is where I'm supposed to be, I was like God don't make mistakes. But then I started to question that because I wasn't having fun. But now, all of a sudden I'm at parties and events with all the cats who I grew up watching and I was like I want to work with him. So, yeah, I'm scratching stuff off the bucket list. I mean I'm just meeting them but I'm not working with them yet. I'm getting different auditions. And then I would audition and then they wouldn't see me for funny stuff. They'd be like oh, pooch is a serious actor, he's not comedy. And they're like bro, they're like what you right?
Speaker 2:because they throw they're like because they don't know, they don't know, they don't know, they don't know.
Speaker 3:And then they're like oh well, black shows, black shows yeah, and even if you show them something funny, but because they're not familiar with it, it's still not really like oh, it's not like yeah, it's not friends, or it's not like you know, frazier or Seinfeld. You know what I mean. So we really didn't, we didn't get that notoriety. So there was this time, bro, I was like in this weird pocket, but then trying to pretend like, yeah, I made the right decision where I did, because I also established some like amazing relationships from there to where I'm at now creatively, there's some things happening that I'm utilizing, but it doesn't mean I did not know how to be for a second there to where, all of a sudden, you know what, I will have that drink, I will have that shot, because at that time I was a, a CNO therapist. I didn't know what it meant to be like. Why am I feeling this way? People are telling me I'm supposed to be on point and I'm not feeling that way. So I guess I got to kind of pretend to be on point. And then, and then I started seeing other actors who were going through the same thing where it didn't, and there were people who had way more money than me, were way more famous but weren't happy, and you find yourself all of a sudden you know those Spike Lee shots where you're floating and people are there the cats, the cats are. That's how I felt. My feet weren't on the ground and I was being moved around. And then whenever, whenever, I would be like hey, so I had some questions about my character. Or like it was a snow don't worry about it, pooch just like that. I felt like I didn't have a say, as opposed to when, all of a sudden, on the game we're collaborating, they're even taking your suggestion, putting it in the script, like that to me was that's creative, that's collaboration.
Speaker 3:But then when you're on a high level and you're not able to do that well, my character wasn't, but I saw other characters doing that I'm like did I make the wrong? Am I not respected as a real actor? Am I not making? And it didn't really matter how much, because John LaVoy and Leah, they vouch for me like so many different times. But if the powers that be, if their vision isn't that they're, it's like, okay, cool, yeah, we'll consider it something. But then you'll go back to the script and you're like hey, I thought we were like that's, that's what it is.
Speaker 3:And then all of a sudden, oh, but I thought you don't like the writing. No, I didn't say I didn't like the writing. I thought that you know what, it's fine, and you're sitting there and then they're like, oh, my God, you're great. Who's just that in third? And then to them, it's great. But then my people outside like yo, what was up with that scene? Dog, like da-da-da-da, and like well, you know, I'm playing a character. And they're like, yeah, man, it's kind of like crazy how they're doing black people something like that. And I'm like you know you're in this weird world.
Speaker 2:You didn't feel like your voice is being heard in either job that's crazy, and you know, and you think that led you to. Well, this that and then the pressure of you. Yeah, that takes a real adjustment, I'm sure, for everybody.
Speaker 3:Yeah, bro, the reality of it is, and you're growing up on TV where people think they know your life that's right. And you're like, nah, I'm not okay, but I realize today it's okay to not be okay. Yeah, and you know, being sober, you know, gave me clarity to where I don't care about being famous. I just want to be happy and work with people.
Speaker 1:I want to have fun with. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 3:And that's why I had to create my own stuff, because then I was like, okay, well, maybe we'll go over here and we'll have another shot at greatness. But then in that situation we don't want that pooch. And you're like, but are you not listening to the fans? And I feel the powers that be when they don't listen to the fans.
Speaker 3:Sometimes they can get it wrong and for sure you can listen to the fans but still keep your agenda, or whatchamacallit, but actually hear what they're saying and incorporate that. You know, and that's why I love the collaboration thing, why I still feel to this day that we as a cast the six of us and whoever else wants to play with us we can have something great. Still, I agree.
Speaker 2:And really one of the questions. I thank you for sharing that with all of us because I really wanted to understand more about you, know what you've gone through, man, because I love you and I care for you and Kobe, that's a great segue for me to you because really want to know. Like you are probably one of the most I've said this to you before, but I've said it a lot you taught me so much about humanity working with you because I was like this Alabama Bible Belt boy who was like God. You know, I was so ruled in a way Still am, obviously and you were young bro.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was the youngest one in our cast, but I looked up to all of you guys but you were one of the most thoughtful, kind, patient, funny, caring, Like you are the real life Huxtable. I said the real life huxtable I said the real life, huxtable I thought you were saying jason pitts.
Speaker 2:I was like no, no no, he is the real life. Theo okay think about it he's funny, he's witty, he's charming and he loves his kids, his wife his family. You are the first example of a guy in the industry in cooch. I'm not saying that you weren't, but you on your grind in a different way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah I know your setup is different but, kobe, you were the first guy that I had ever experienced who put his family first. Man, no matter how many flights you had to take home, you never let your wife go through um things alone and you guys were dealing with your situation, with your kids and everything. How do you manage? And if you don't mind sharing a little bit about your kids or we can edit this past, but you know that journey was tough on you guys and you never cracked it.
Speaker 3:Five right. You have five right, Four, Four. Oh okay, okay, I was thinking I was a boy, girl, girl, girl, okay um, as far as the like.
Speaker 1:So you know the game was in. I was in New York working on third watch. My first two girls were born in New York, but we were all still together, came back out, started working on the game, but the first three years were in LA.
Speaker 3:So it was all good.
Speaker 1:I was like I'm just going up, I got this, yeah, every three weeks we got a. So it was all good. I was like I'm just going up, I got this Every three weeks, we got a week off.
Speaker 1:It's like family time, family time that ended and then I got burn notice which was in Miami. I was like shit, okay, what do I do? Does the whole family? Do I uproot everybody? Because at that point I had four kids all young. Do I uproot everybody? Or do I uproot everybody, or do I just fly back and forth? And then Avis and I discussed it and I just said, okay, I'm just going to fly back and forth, I'm going to fly back and forth. And I remember when I first went out there to kind of find an apartment and get established and do my first episode, it was like 8 days gone away from the house it's never gonna be, it's never gonna be this long again.
Speaker 1:Wow, I just can't do it, you never do it wow man.
Speaker 1:So I said okay, five days is the rule, and like, if I'm normally, it's not, it won't be five days. You don't normally work all five days on a tv show, but if it's five days, it's five days, I'll go home for the weekend, I'll come back, and so that's just what I. It's five days, I'll go home for the weekend, I'll come back, and so that's just what I've been doing since, through Burn Notice, through the Gifted, through, you know so since we ended on the CW, that's been your life since.
Speaker 1:So it was the game and Burn Notice at the same time, which was oh yeah, that's right. Atlanta, Miami, Seven months out of the year going back and forth Miami.
Speaker 1:Atlanta home, oh, and then started with the game, and then it was Atlanta home. And then after that, when those two things ended, I said okay, I'm getting something in LA. So I didn't take any during those pilot seasons. I didn't go in on anything that wasn't going to shoot in LA, which is rough, rough. Yeah, bro, and I booked something. It didn't go. The next season I booked something and it didn't go. So I was like okay, now that's.
Speaker 3:I got to fucking work. I got to work Right.
Speaker 1:So that was when the Gifted came along, and it was like a Marvel thing it was an. X-men world. I was like, all right, this is going to be fun, do your thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the director was big.
Speaker 2:He was like what's his name? Well, yeah, I was like we won't get into that. Oh sorry, I know, oops, but yeah.
Speaker 1:So I said, okay, it's going to film either in Dallas or Atlanta. I again, because this is, I got to take this. So then it was that, and then it was um, straight from there into walker and that just ended. So, yeah, it's been flying, yeah, I've been, I've been flying, but it's I, I, it's I. I see it as I'm probably home, more than like a parent that works sort of nine to five.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, because in total hours you're yeah doesn't see their kids, right, yeah, and then when I am home, I'm just home right all day with them. I mean, at this point it's different because you know, you know, I got two sets of twins yeah two of them are going to be seniors in college and two of them are going to be sophomores in high school, but that's that but that's also the reason why I think you're like a superhero too. It's because they're the same age. You're a wife and you have two at the same time. You're like, yeah, that's twins.
Speaker 2:But two responsibilities financial, emotional, you know, mental like all that at one time. That cannot be easy.
Speaker 1:Two sets of that. It's kind of always where I want, like once. Once we had kids, it was like okay, how do I work as much as I have to so that we can be? Comfortable and be good but work as little as I can, so I can be home as much as I can, yeah not miss a bunch of shit, like my dad.
Speaker 1:My dad's a great, great dad, but he's a singer and he would have to. You know he would. He would book an opera that would take him to germany for 10 months you know he didn't have. He didn't have the luxury of flying back because they're doing shows all on the weekends and everything right.
Speaker 1:So he couldn't do what I've. We've talked about this like he couldn't do what I, what I've been doing. But another thing I got from my dad was just the attitude of it's just work, you know. Just show up, have fun, do your job, go the fuck home. You don't need to get caught up in anything else.
Speaker 2:And I think that discipline has carried you throughout your entire life, because that's a regiment, there's a discipline to that. But I also feel like that type of discipline is the discipline some of us need to be our best. So that's why I think you'll always work, you'll always get a show, because your regiment and the way you have to learn things, in that in-between time and program your life, you're already going in, in my opinion, probably ahead mentally of the other artists, because your mind, the travel, the work, the compartmentalize, like all of that, it's a tool for people and we don't even really realize that this tool. I will whoop a new actor's ass in an audition.
Speaker 2:I don't know seriously like I've gotten to that place where I know it is a skill set, even on your worst day, damn these self-tapes and auditions, but it's a skill set that you cannot buy it.
Speaker 2:Experience will only give it to you. Yeah, true, in my 40s I've really realized that all we're doing is gathering things for other people. My home is mine for now, but someone else will live here. Life will go on. Once I've left my footprint on this planet and I now know that life is really about helping one another navigate this journey. There is no competition in our lives. It's in our minds, and if we can get past our minds, all of our lives will be a lot better.
Speaker 2:The ideals that we carry that are false about humanity. So this space is created to give men a place to come to, to heal, to congregate and to not feel or be judged in any way. Our stories and our history is someone else's future. So the better we can provide the tools for our young men, for young black men, to navigate this damn world we live in, the better humans we will be, because it's really just about our footprint and giving back.
Speaker 2:So thank you guys for sharing your story. We laugh, we joke, we have a great time, but I know the serious wealth of information that both of you guys provide is going to help a lot of people navigate their journey, because if we can be on TV stars and rich and all the stuff that comes along with the idea of being in this business then we can also do something to give someone else a roadmap so they can be their best when they're working at Walmart or at AutoZone or wherever, because nobody's in the same alone. So thank you guys so much. I'd like to thank you guys personally for watching today's episode, and I'd also like to ask you to spread the word about our community. We're small and we're mighty, but we're healing and growing as men, and thank you in advance for helping share that. So if you want to help us keep the conversation going or if you need to have a chat yourself, you can always reach out to us on our Facebook, our Instagram or our TikTok. Fellas, let's grow.
